hazy 2-color

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jsfisher
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Post by jsfisher »

Steven wrote:Working out mJ/cm² is quite easy.
You have 14mW of laser power spread out over a 5" x 5" plate.
That works out at approximately 161.3 square centimetres....
Well, you should really be considering the circle needed to cover a 5" x 5" square, not just the square. The diameter of the circle must be at least the main diagonal of the square, or about 7". Convert to metric and do the pi-R-squared thing to get something quite near 250 cm². The rest follows from there. I got about 55µW/cm² times 1,800 seconds = 99 mJ/cm².

What would you guess for power loss to intervening optics? 5% per mirror and maybe 15% to the spatial filter?
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Joe Farina
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Post by Joe Farina »

Steven, thanks for the method to get mJ. I have printed a hard copy for my records ;)

Thanks also for the details and photos regarding the microscope and "worms". That's very interesting, and I will keep it in mind.

JSFisher, thanks for the clarification concerning the corners of the plate (by the way, the 14mW was after the spatial filter and there were no other optics after that). If I'm getting results at 99mJ, I'm feeling a bit better. This does open an interesting question about the Gaussian nature of the spread beam (i.e., when does the spread beam "stop"). One thing I would like to measure is the actual power of the spread beams, going from the center outward. I want to measure the power (using a LaserCheck) in the center, and then every 1 centimeter, going outward, until the light stops. I suppose there are graphs showing this, but I want to do it directly.
Steven

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Post by Steven »

jsfisher wrote:Well, you should really be considering the circle needed to cover a 5" x 5" square, not just the square. The diameter of the circle must be at least the main diagonal of the square, or about 7". Convert to metric and do the pi-R-squared thing to get something quite near 250 cm². The rest follows from there. I got about 55µW/cm² times 1,800 seconds = 99 mJ/cm².

What would you guess for power loss to intervening optics? 5% per mirror and maybe 15% to the spatial filter?
Yes, you are quite right. I was being sloppy.

From Thorlabs site:
UV Enhanced and Protected Aluminum Mirrors
Protected Aluminum: Ravg > 90% from 450 nm - 2 µm,
Ravg > 95% from 2 - 20 µm

The loss through a spatial filter will vary a lot, depending on input beam quality, objective lens quality and the correct selection of aperture.
I know when I used to use my SF with HeNe, I did get a lot of light bouncing back towards the laser. A fair portion will be reflected from the several air/glass/air surfaces in the microscope objective. I'm Using a 315M-100 now, so I don't bother using a SF. I use a small concave mirror (F.L. = 9.5mm) as a beam expander.

Steven.
Steven

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Post by Steven »

Joe Farina wrote:Steven, thanks for the method to get mJ. I have printed a hard copy for my records ;)

Thanks also for the details and photos regarding the microscope and "worms". That's very interesting, and I will keep it in mind.

JSFisher, thanks for the clarification concerning the corners of the plate (by the way, the 14mW was after the spatial filter and there were no other optics after that). If I'm getting results at 99mJ, I'm feeling a bit better. This does open an interesting question about the Gaussian nature of the spread beam (i.e., when does the spread beam "stop"). One thing I would like to measure is the actual power of the spread beams, going from the center outward. I want to measure the power (using a LaserCheck) in the center, and then every 1 centimeter, going outward, until the light stops. I suppose there are graphs showing this, but I want to do it directly.
You are welcome Joe.

Yes, I would be very happy with a sensitivity of 99mJ/cm² too.
The second test plate is on the table. Four long exposures to do, so I will be up all night.

Re Gaussian beam.
My beam is expanded to about 17" to hit my main large plain mirror. When I shoot a 5" x 7" hologram, there is still a variation in power density across the plate. If I remember correctly, the centre was getting about 50µJ/cm² and the outer edge (top/bottom) was getting 45µJ/cm².
When I was using less beam expansion, there was a noticeable difference in hardness between the centre and outer areas of the hologram, as you would expect.
This made it more difficult to process the hologram evenly, the centre being more greener.

Joe, I don't think you need to measure every centimetre across the beam. Adjust your beam so that the peak of maximum power is hitting the centre of your plate and adjust your beam expansion so that the outer areas of you plate has an acceptable power density, not too different from the peak.

Obviously, there is a tradeoff between even exposure across the plate and a long exposure due to reduced power density.

Steven.
Steven

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Post by Steven »

Steven wrote: If I remember correctly, the centre was getting about 50µJ/cm² and the outer edge (top/bottom) was getting 45µJ/cm².
Correction:

If I remember correctly, the centre was getting about 50µW/cm² and the outer edge (top/bottom) was getting 45µW/cm².

It's been a very long night.

Steven. ;)
Joe Farina
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Post by Joe Farina »

Steven wrote:
Steven wrote:It's been a very long night.
I know how it feels ;)
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jsfisher
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Post by jsfisher »

Joe Farina wrote:
Steven wrote:
Steven wrote:It's been a very long night.
I know how it feels ;)
If I were to say, "I second that", how many people would get the in-context pun?
:oops:
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Ed Wesly
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Post by Ed Wesly »

Joe F said:
One thing I would like to measure is the actual power of the spread beams, going from the center outward. I want to measure the power (using a LaserCheck) in the center, and then every 1 centimeter, going outward, until the light stops. I suppose there are graphs showing this, but I want to do it directly.
The business with measuring every centimeter across the spread beam is not such a bad idea to use up some lab time and see how good you are with taking data. The end result of the project would be a graph looking like The Bell-Shaped Curve, which is another name for the Gaussian Distribution Curve, which is what the laser’s intensity profile should look like.

Put a piece of graph paper in your spread beam to coordinate your detector head positions. Make it normal to the spread beam for starters, you might get carried away and see what tilting the target gets you after this test. (You might prove the cosine law!)

You might want to tape your detector’s active area down to a slit. This is for finer resolution when graphing, for if your detector is a one square centimeter square, each side is a centimeter, and moving it a cm could cause some overlap.

The slit should be at right angles to the sampling direction, and you could sample first in one direction then the other to see if the profile is symmetrical. This type of sampling that you would be doing manually is done automatically by mechanical/digital beam profilers like these: http://www.ophiropt.com/laser-measureme ... slit-based

Ideally after measuring all these points and graphing them, you should see the classic Gaussian distribution. But then again, you may not. I have a Compass 315M and its distribution doesn’t look as Gaussian as a He-Ne’s, more flat topped, when they are combined, and the Melles Griot BLD 605’s beam is neither round nor Gaussian looking either. If I didn’t have an insane project hanging over my head to play in the lab...

As far as how much less bright should the edges be in illuminating the hologram, you can usually see a photographic stop’s (doubling or halving of light intensity) difference in exposure in the typical silver halide holographic material. I try to go less than a half-stop, or .7 approximately. (Square root of two over two, to be exact.) With the tolerance for DCG you guys are the experts. But I would be running exposures with 50 in the center and 45 at the edges!
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Steven

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Post by Steven »

Joe Farina wrote:Hi Steven,

Glad you're doing some experimentation.

Good luck, and I'm looking forward to hearing about your progress.
Hi Joe, just to let you know the results.

I got something very dim on the second plate. The image is far to weak to photograph and is only visible in a laser beam.
The image is only visible at an angle less than Brewster's, more towards the norm, so there has been some shrinkage and a shift towards blue.
I shot both plates face down on top of a 5mm thick sheet of aluminium, not anodized.

I made four separate exposures on each plate, the longest was over two hours forty six minutes. That's why it was a long night.

The brightest exposure was at 500mJ ref only, approx 770mJ if you assume 90% reflection from the aluminium.
Things can only get brighter from here. :)

I will continue with my R6G/MBDCG experiments and will start a separate thread when I have made some progress.

Steven.
Joe Farina
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Post by Joe Farina »

Hi Steven,

Thanks for the update. Dye-sensitized DCG is tougher than regular DCG. Sometimes I've gotten results which were just as bright as my earlier blue-exposed DCG, only to find out that I couldn't repeat it. Adding color is tougher still. I work during the daytime, so I've also had some very long days (in your case, nights) ;)

I've attached a paper on dye-sensitized DCG (apparently the first one by Graube in 1973) in the pdf input section. Not that it's necessarily relevant to your tests, but sometimes a paper can have a detail which makes it useful.
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