david this is very close to where he lives, good linkdave battin wrote:Martin wrote: In case you'd still insist on using photographic fixer, why not take a look there (http://www.tetenal.com/index_c.htm?AKT= ... 00070&L=UK)?
Kiffdino, did you try martin's suggestion for the fixer?
First DCG, Please, Help me find the problem.
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Danny Bee
First DCG, Please, Help me find the problem.
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Colin Kaminski
First DCG, Please, Help me find the problem.
I was just about to say this. Sorry it took me so long to catch up with the thread. Please leave political discourse out of the forum.Kiffdino wrote:Okay, i think ive undestood the considarable dangers of dichromate now.
I will take all the precautions i can.
But now lets get back to the initial topic of this post, which is after all me getting my first DCG hologram right using the G307 formula.
At the moment im busy but i guess next weekend ill be ready to do the next shoot.
This time neutralizing any remaining dichromate with metabisulfate. I promise.
Im happy now.
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Danny Bee
First DCG, Please, Help me find the problem.
yes the fixer does 2 things, removes the unactived chrome, and gives the gel a overal hardness reducing overal mikyness.Kiffdino wrote:ahh ok, so fixer and baking are not canceling each other out. I see
alot of hardening going on:
the bloom of the gelatin ist the starting point with predefined hardness
then the alum in g307 is hardening
the exposure energy of the laser is hardening the gelatin
the baking is hardening
and now i would introduce a fixer for aditional hardening before the first washing bath?
so overal hardening can happen several difrent ways in reaction with the chrome and gel,
light,
heat,
age,
fixer,
glyerin
what glyerin does is speed ups the reation with the chrome ther by incressing the senitivity by 2 to 3x to light and heat, also you can add glyerin to the mix and coat . what will happen is you will shorten the aging process by doing this.
also ammonia vapors will bring up the senitivity by 2x.
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JohnFP
First DCG, Please, Help me find the problem.
NO STOP!!!
Using Fixer or Alum and SM mixed is a completely different process. You do not bake.
For fixer processing Simply make the standard DCG formulat (water, AmDi and Gelatin) that's all. Or if you are premaking non sensitized plate, just coat with water and gelatin, when cured, then sensitize with solution of AmDi and wipe and let dry. Expose. Then wait a few minutes. Then fixer, wash, alcohol, dryer. No baking needed.
Read up on standard DCG processing.
Using Fixer or Alum and SM mixed is a completely different process. You do not bake.
For fixer processing Simply make the standard DCG formulat (water, AmDi and Gelatin) that's all. Or if you are premaking non sensitized plate, just coat with water and gelatin, when cured, then sensitize with solution of AmDi and wipe and let dry. Expose. Then wait a few minutes. Then fixer, wash, alcohol, dryer. No baking needed.
Read up on standard DCG processing.
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Kiffdino
First DCG, Please, Help me find the problem.
hi,
time for an update,
ive changed some things and the results are very pleasing.
im so happy.
What did i change?
Most importantly i reduced the distance between obejct and diverging lens. before the distance was about 120cm now its 30cm. By that i increased exposing energy significantly.
and i built a black screen around my balkony so i can do all the dichromate related work under fresh air in the dark.
its like working under a fume hood, quite cold though...
.
Again veil coating, g307 formulary. With baking in the oven.
1st hologram of the night:
-settling time for the table 10min
-exposure time 20 sec
-dark reaction 5 min
-then i moved out on the balkony
-fast baking in the pizza oven on metal plate 2 min, fast cooling on metal plate 2 min
-rinsing plate in icecoldwater, (because i did it outside and its winter in europe, the water temperature must have been around 5°C.) two baths and rinsing for 3 min in each one.
-then i moved back inside
-alcohol baths. first one 15 sec 70% at room temperature. second one 15 sec 90% at about 36°C, third one 2min 100 % at about 42°C.
-drying with hairdryer for 5min
The outcome was a very dim, completely green hologram. There was no miklyness at all. The plate was completely transparent except that slight yellow stain. Unfortunatly i painted the emulsion side with black paint and after that the hologram was gone. So there are no pictures. Not a big loss though.
second hologram of the night
because i aimed for some more milkyness i reduced the baking time, apart from that the process was almost the same as the first hologram.
so baking time was down to 1min30sec this time. cooling 1min 30 sec
and i put the rinsing baths inside, so the water was room temperature now. I think that helped aswell.
-alcohol baths. first one 15 sec 70% at room temperature. second one 15 sec 90% at about 36°C, third one 1min30sec 100 % at about 42°C.
The outcome was amazing.
Hologram is a little milky and has a golden purple color.
third hologram of the night
last time there was too much milkyness so i increased baking time to 1min 45sec. cooling 1min 30 sec
all the other variables i left unchanged. rinsing baths again at room temperature.
-alcohol baths. first one 15 sec 70% at room temperature. second one 15 sec 90% at about 36°C, third one 1min15sec(took it out exactly 15 sec after i saw the hologram) 100 % at about 42°C.
The outcome, even slightly better then the secondy hologram.
The difference between hologram 2 and 3 are very small.
Number 3 is less milky and more golden. Maybe even a little brighter. hard to tell.
time for an update,
ive changed some things and the results are very pleasing.
im so happy.
What did i change?
Most importantly i reduced the distance between obejct and diverging lens. before the distance was about 120cm now its 30cm. By that i increased exposing energy significantly.
and i built a black screen around my balkony so i can do all the dichromate related work under fresh air in the dark.
its like working under a fume hood, quite cold though...
.Again veil coating, g307 formulary. With baking in the oven.
1st hologram of the night:
-settling time for the table 10min
-exposure time 20 sec
-dark reaction 5 min
-then i moved out on the balkony
-fast baking in the pizza oven on metal plate 2 min, fast cooling on metal plate 2 min
-rinsing plate in icecoldwater, (because i did it outside and its winter in europe, the water temperature must have been around 5°C.) two baths and rinsing for 3 min in each one.
-then i moved back inside
-alcohol baths. first one 15 sec 70% at room temperature. second one 15 sec 90% at about 36°C, third one 2min 100 % at about 42°C.
-drying with hairdryer for 5min
The outcome was a very dim, completely green hologram. There was no miklyness at all. The plate was completely transparent except that slight yellow stain. Unfortunatly i painted the emulsion side with black paint and after that the hologram was gone. So there are no pictures. Not a big loss though.
second hologram of the night
because i aimed for some more milkyness i reduced the baking time, apart from that the process was almost the same as the first hologram.
so baking time was down to 1min30sec this time. cooling 1min 30 sec
and i put the rinsing baths inside, so the water was room temperature now. I think that helped aswell.
-alcohol baths. first one 15 sec 70% at room temperature. second one 15 sec 90% at about 36°C, third one 1min30sec 100 % at about 42°C.
The outcome was amazing.
Hologram is a little milky and has a golden purple color.
third hologram of the night
last time there was too much milkyness so i increased baking time to 1min 45sec. cooling 1min 30 sec
all the other variables i left unchanged. rinsing baths again at room temperature.
-alcohol baths. first one 15 sec 70% at room temperature. second one 15 sec 90% at about 36°C, third one 1min15sec(took it out exactly 15 sec after i saw the hologram) 100 % at about 42°C.
The outcome, even slightly better then the secondy hologram.
The difference between hologram 2 and 3 are very small.
Number 3 is less milky and more golden. Maybe even a little brighter. hard to tell.
- Attachments
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- second hologram of the night picture 1.jpg (68.39 KiB) Viewed 4909 times
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- second hologram of the night picture 2.jpg (76.15 KiB) Viewed 4910 times
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- second hologram of the night picture 3.jpg (68.38 KiB) Viewed 4910 times
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Kiffdino
First DCG, Please, Help me find the problem.
i could only upload 3 pictures in one post , so heres the third hologram of the night from different angles.
Its the best one i did so far.
Its the best one i did so far.
- Attachments
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- third hologram of the night 1.jpg (97.08 KiB) Viewed 4906 times
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- third hologram of the night 2.jpg (74.67 KiB) Viewed 4906 times
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- third hologram of the night 3.jpg (75.65 KiB) Viewed 4907 times
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Dutchelm05
First DCG, Please, Help me find the problem.
Looks like excellent progress Kiffdino,
Only one question.
If you look at the hologram through normal light (meaning hold the hologram between your eye and a light source) do you see the "burn in" that John always refers to? You should see and almost ghost or etched image sort of a gray white in color, of the coin on there. I don't see it on the photo. If you do not see it than your exposure is a bit too low. Also, the purple color to me indicates under exposure.
I am not sure I like this whole oven thing, I know this was talked about on older post. I would duplicate (as I still do) what the master DCG'ers do as far as chemicals and a like. It is just a variable we will have to work through.
Hope you have continued success!
Tony
Only one question.
If you look at the hologram through normal light (meaning hold the hologram between your eye and a light source) do you see the "burn in" that John always refers to? You should see and almost ghost or etched image sort of a gray white in color, of the coin on there. I don't see it on the photo. If you do not see it than your exposure is a bit too low. Also, the purple color to me indicates under exposure.
I am not sure I like this whole oven thing, I know this was talked about on older post. I would duplicate (as I still do) what the master DCG'ers do as far as chemicals and a like. It is just a variable we will have to work through.
Hope you have continued success!
Tony
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Kiffdino
First DCG, Please, Help me find the problem.
hi Tony,
yes i think there is "burn in" on the plates. I looks almost the same as the "burn out" i got used to when working with silver halide film.
Anyway, I will try longer exposure times next time I shoot.
yes i think there is "burn in" on the plates. I looks almost the same as the "burn out" i got used to when working with silver halide film.
Anyway, I will try longer exposure times next time I shoot.
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Kiffdino
First DCG, Please, Help me find the problem.
By the way i just ordered some Tetenal Superfix Plus, the fixer many of you recomended.
It breaks my heart that it would make my newly acquired pizza-oven redundant.
So next session, there will be no oven and longer exposure times.
It breaks my heart that it would make my newly acquired pizza-oven redundant.
So next session, there will be no oven and longer exposure times.
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Dutchelm05
First DCG, Please, Help me find the problem.
So if you look at the hippo as well as others, you can see a strong burn in. At least for coin it should be this strong since they are so reflective like a mirror.
Later, I would suggest using old tarnished coins so they don't reflect as much. Also once you get it, try to make all the coins equal in shine so your exposures come out even.
Looks like great progess and if you need any more help, you've come to the right place
Later, I would suggest using old tarnished coins so they don't reflect as much. Also once you get it, try to make all the coins equal in shine so your exposures come out even.
Looks like great progess and if you need any more help, you've come to the right place
- coin burn in.jpg (29.1 KiB) Viewed 4837 times
- coins.jpg (38.53 KiB) Viewed 4837 times