Dip-N-Shoot DCG film plates.

[Dutchelm05]

Very nice Filipe,

You would expect clearer holograms as the film ages and greener too.

It is really hard to tell what is going on regarding the peeling.
Before dipping was the film soft?
How long was the drying time?

Perhaps with all due respect to Dave's method, perhaps the dip method to a bit too advance for you. Perhaps you should consider taking a step back and doing a standard AmDi mix and try a mold techneque. You have a tremendous amount of variables you are contending with and as Dave has always said, make good film first.

Anyway, it is up to you. Dave is a great mentor and if you enjoy working with him as I have then it is worth it.

Best of luck,
Tony

[JohnFP]

Ok, I got to say. The name Dip-N-Shoot is Dave's not the method. We have been doing this method for quite some time prior to the new label on it. Although I do like the catchy label. I personally used this technique when I bought some precoated plain gelatin film from a company. It had just plain photo grade geatin. But I didn't continue due to my dislike for using film instead of plates. In fact the G307 paper uses this method, see below. I simply called it sensitizing the gelatin. But again, I do love the name, it kinda summarizes the technique in three words.

3. The method
The brief overview of the steps we finally used in our system
are as follows:
(1) Coat gelatin onto glass.
(2) Immerse the dry film in a solution containing potassium
dichromate and glycerol.
(3) Expose to 532 nm or 514 nm laser light.
(4) Thermally encourage completion of the light induced
dichromate transition to CrIII at 100 C. Typical baking
time is between 2 and 5 min.
(5) Immerse the cool plate in a stirred water bath with
controlled temperature.
(6) Then to use a sequence of 3 iso-propyl alcohol baths
at room temperature but using the simple cover plate
technique advocated by Bahuguna et al [3].
(7) Then to put the finished plate back in the oven at 100 C
to completely dry out.

[dave battin]

Ok, I got to say. The name Dip-N-Shoot is Dave's not the method. But again, I do love the name, it kinda summarizes the technique in three words.

yes right John as you say "WE" (the holography comunity),have been doing this for years......and i tagged the process with the "Dip-N-Shoot" name, so when WE hear it said years from now, we'll know it came from the forum !

John, on the other hand i really havent seen/read much sucess come from the G307 process lately. I have sucessfully made holograms with jeffs method and i am suprised i havent seen current improvments on this matter ?

please do not remain "quiet" John as i always look forward to your posts..............

[Dutchelm05]

Good summary John.
I guess since Dave is going through the trouble of championing the technique and sharing it with us he can call it the Dunk n GoNuts for all I care Early DCG used the silver holographic Kodak film, removed the silver and soaked with DCG.

I do think that a newbie should consider a standard method until he/she gets good results. Since there are so many variables in DCG I have to wonder if the Dip N Shoot has some added ones that only confuse matters. I've done some OK looking stuff with 532nm using standard coatings and reasonable AmDi concentrations. If Filipe is happy with his direction then that is good enough for me

[manalokos]

Hello

Thanks all for the advice!
I can try direct mold coating with dichromated gelatine, but it is scary to
have that sticky orange gelatine everywhere, and I am quite messy.
Even if I have problems with the Dip-n-shoot method, I think that if I can master
the most difficult aspects, I can jump right to another level.

My big worries are not in the technical field, I've seen that I can achieve good results,
I only need to get some consistency on the results, my big question is: what to shoot?
What is the point of holography in terms of artistic language? I find no interest
in making holograms of normal common objects, nor perfect super duper pristine plates
without a scratch, it is nice, but it can be boring. Sometimes the nicer things are those that
have mistakes, or those that make a statement, regardless of the technical quality.

How do you guys see it?

Best regards
Filipe

[BobH]

When I was at laser tech school in 1980 at Vincennes University, I was making DCG holograms by coating the plates first and then sensitizing them afterward. We were following a procedure from Detroit Diesel Allison. Our method was to put two plates together with tape around the edges to seal the inside. They were then dunked into a beaker of dissolved gelatin, and drawn out slowly by a string attached to a slowly turning shaft. The coating thickness was controlled by the speed of withdrawal.

After coating and drying, the plates were separated and sensitized in a tray of ammonium dichromate solution. Here's the only resulting hologram I still have. The damage happened early in its life and hasn't grown over the years.

IMG_1185.JPG (60.16 KiB) Viewed 2660 times

[Dutchelm05]

If your good with it then great Filipe.

My big worries are not in the technical field, I've seen that I can achieve good results,
I only need to get some consistency on the results, my big question is: what to shoot?
What is the point of holography in terms of artistic language? I find no interest
in making holograms of normal common objects, nor perfect super duper pristine plates
without a scratch, it is nice, but it can be boring. Sometimes the nicer things are those that
have mistakes, or those that make a statement, regardless of the technical quality.

That is a good point but remember just as a painter or sculpter needs to master his tools so will you. Go to a flea market and find any object you want that looks good to you (within limits), but if artisticly you want it the hologram yellow, blue or green perhaps even broadband, this requires the ability to know how to achieve this. Do you want the object protruding out of the glass? Do you want have the image so bright that it does not require much light to illuminate it? Look at Dave's or Joe's holograms, they blend the two forms nicely. If you want perfection, look at August Muth's work. The path is up to you but IMO there are few short cuts in DCG

[Danny Bee]

hi john come and join the Wii and start making dip-n-shoot holograms ... much better than theory,,, theory is just words untill you put them into action like Dave has.... why sit and watch? come do!!! make history John

[dave battin]

ok, i like the activity over this subject and i want to thank all involved with this thread.

thank you bob for the picture and tips of this process. I was thinking the Dip-N-Shoot (DnS), method as in introduction to dcg holography, to brake up the coating/sensitizing steps (making easier),Felipe just made his first hologram last week, so as far as advancing he seems to moving along quiet rapidly....... a guess time will tell with this one.

as far as the G307 process, as said, been there done that. i was not fond of this system but it worked. when i push an idea on someone i kind of need to see some proof (if not in my hands or others), since the publishing the G307 recipe i have not seen any progress, or holograms.......

I have currently switched over to shooting DnS in 475nm, and i am amazed how little dichromate is needed, i took a portion of my original sensitizing solution (for 532nm) and have diluted it by 300% ! The film is a little low in sensitivity, so i probably diluted a bit to much.


That’s just silly john, to think this is my process ! Ill take it as a complement that you were seeing/feeling this and needed to clarify it to everyone

All is good, and I hope for more progress this weekend !

[JohnFP]

Danny, what "theory" are you talking about. I mentioneed some facts about the effects of more or less AmDi in the emulsion.

Dave, I wasa simply correcting the statement before in the prior thread by Dutch. He did say it was your method. And you already commented on my statement in you prior post. Is it necessary to again?

Wow, this is why I mostly don't post anymore. I come out and state some facts to try to help in the conversation and because I am not practicing holography at the moment because of personal matters, I guess I am not worthy of contributing my knowledge. Thank you Danny for your postive scarcastic encouragement.