Where are all the holograms?

These are all of the old posts from the first two years of the forum. They are locked.
Updated: 2005-03-28 by HoloM (the god)
Michael Harrison

Where are all the holograms?

Post by Michael Harrison »

I thought Frank DeFreitas' latest commentary would be of interest to some of the forum denizens...

http://comac.enter.net/webhf/369088579.html

I was on a roadtrip all last week, the first half work related, the second half a few vacation days. Deb and I spent a few days at Lake Erie, right in Erie PA. I began my trip on a greyhound bus, which gave me time to sit back and grab some think time. Deb was to follow by car and meet up with me mid-week. While on the bus, I began to think about keeping an eye out -- during the entire week away -- for any signs whatsoever concerning lasers and holography (outside of my own pursuits, of course). I found none.
During the week, I was scheduled for meetings during the day, and dinners out in the evenings. The meetings were with large regional companies, and the dinners were in well-established regional restaurants. I looked for holograms everywhere . . . in lobbies as wall art, in offices as trinkets, on corporate publications as embossed holograms, on a business card, you name it. Nothing.
As the week progressed and Deb met up with me, we headed out on our few days vacation together. This time, I had the opportunity to visit several regional attractions in the Erie, PA area. Most notably the Lake Erie Maritime Museum, which doents the history of everything nautical in the region. Then there was a fine Irish Pub, the hotel, several restaurants . . . once again, nothing could be found hologram-related anywhere.
Is there even such a thing as holography? Hello?
Now I'll admit that I'm the first person who feels that holograms should be more than just a replication media. That is, a hologram of a coffee cup does little for me. However, over the years I've learned to taper that view with a grain of salt. There ARE examples where holography can be extremely beneficial when it serves only to replicate an already-existing object. One famous hologram example is Lindow Man. Other examples have been the treasures of Ukraine. And so on and so forth. In these cases, and other like them, something extraordinary becomes of the already-existing object. The ordinary becomes the extraordinary with holography. A beautiful hologram -- of even the most ordinary object -- would light up the Erie Maritime museum like no other exhibit on display there.
Holograms demand that a viewer look at the object in ways that the actual object itself does not command.
So where is the problem?
I'm sure all holographers have been toiling over this question since the beginning. The problem seems to be that there appears to be even less holograms out there than I can ever remember. Usually you would run in to one SOMEwhere. Not everyday, but certainly more often than of late.
With the advent of a surge in amateur and hobbyist holography, perhaps this can be turned around. Do you have a good restaurant in your area? Create a logo or a dining-related hologram for their entryway. A regional museum? Offer to make a hologram of a regionally-related object. A nightclub? Your local library? Make some holograms, get them "out there" and boost your portfolio in the process.
Frank
Michael Harrison

Where are all the holograms?

Post by Michael Harrison »

To add to Frank's commentary, where are your holograms?

To kick things off...

A few of my holograms are hanging in my office at Paradigm where my co-workers see them. Several times people have commented that I should charge an entry fee since my office now looks a bit like a gallery.
<no current picture available>

I have another set of holograms hanging in our "lizard room" (a dining room where our Iguana lives and where we sit to relax and read.

Here's a semi-current picture


I also have a few holograms that I've given away to friends and family.



---------------------------
If someone says it can't be done but they haven't tried it, don't believe them.
http://www.dragonseye.com/Holography

Are you going to the next PCG Gathering?
http://www.dragonseye.com/Holography/PCGGI.html
Michael Harrison

Where are all the holograms?

Post by Michael Harrison »

Again, to respond to Frank's commentary I'll kick things again by asking

Where do you want your holograms to appear and/or what do you want to accomplish with holography?


Some of the things I'd like to do are:

o Work with local museum/conservation groups to make holograms of delicate, rare or priceless objects which can then be displayed in public areas (libraries, public mall areas, etc) so people who otherwise wouldn't see the objects, can.

o Continue the above so that objects which can't be publicly displayed (for conservation or insurance reasons) can be viewed by the public.

o Keep stretching the artistic part of my brain and making holograms using those stretched bits so that local galleries will be interested in carrying some of my work and/or people will feel inclined to purchase from me directly.

o Continue to make holograms for friends and family because it just feels good to make and give away something that people enjoy looking at.

o Teach young and old people about holography and the many benefits acrued through working in the field (you gain patience, knowledge about physics, chemistry, lasers and safety).

---------------------------
If someone says it can't be done but they haven't tried it, don't believe them.
http://www.dragonseye.com/Holography

Are you going to the next PCG Gathering?
http://www.dragonseye.com/Holography/PCGGI.html
Dinesh

Where are all the holograms?

Post by Dinesh »

It's not a new problem. This is something that's continuously mentioned, in this forum, at SPIE and everytime two holographers talk on the phone.

While there have been rare situations where a glass or large format hologram has been seen in public (The Tiffen hologram of the camera,eg), the average member of the public only sees holograms in an exhibition or gallery, of which there are precious few. It's not just restarants, and co-incidentally someone recently asked me about holograms in restaurants, you'd expect holograms in Vegas, especially in the "Star Trek" motif of the Hilton - none! When I mention this to the staff, there's an apathetic shrug and a "Good idea, I guess". You'd think that cinema foyers would have holograms, especially the ones showing 3d IMAX - none! Gift shops in science museums and stores (KPBS and Discovery, here in the States) - none! Well maybe these small polymer jobs, but nothing substantial. Pubs and bars - none! The bodies of holographers and holography companies litter the countryside, it seems that everytime I ask about someone I get the answer, "They gave up". This from people who've spent the better part of their lives grimly hanging on to a subject that clearly has great emotional appeal for them.

Everytime we get together at SPIE there's talk that the very word 'holography' puts people off so that it's now 'Diffractive Optics', or "'OVDs" (Optically Variable Devices), or 'FBGs' (Fiber Bragg Gratings) or a whole host of other TLAs (Three Letter Acronyms - yes, there's an acronym for acronyms!). As I've said repeatedly, it's the public perception of holography that's the main problem. The public hears of holograms through TV and the movies from script writers who have no clue what a real hologram is.A lot of people then believe that holograms can recreate fantasy environments with interacting characters, can be in a band, sing, dance and do acrobatics (a new Disney TV show, I'm told). When they see a real hologram, it's nothing but kitsch to them. It has no relevance. Advertisers won't touch it because they think it's too expensive. Gift stores, restaurants etc won't touch it because they're being barraged by every other type of media and a hologram is no more special to them than a poster, actually it's more troublesome since they now need to install (expensive) lights and only one, maybe two people can see it at a time. The return for the money doesn't seem feasible taking into account the possible increase in customers against the cost of space and electricity. Holograms on store aisles don't work because it's not instantly recognisable. Who after all these days, picks up something in a store and, when they can't see something, looks for viewing instructions on the back? Also, the public exposure to holograms is packaging materials and embossed 1 inch x 1 inch labels. These are not even packaged as holograms. Meanwhile, the little pink pig floating above two mirrors is a 'hologram', a lenticular is a 'hologram', even a red/green anaglyph or a stereo pair is seen as a 'hologram'. Danny has frequently said, "Try putting the word "hologram" into ebay and see what comes up!" In a world awash with '3D' you'd think there was real 3d!

The solution, I think, is first and foremost, either include lighting or make lighting unnecassary. Secondly: Make it relevant, Thirdly: Present it well. Rayvel has a product in Walmart which satisfies all three criteria (http://www.rayvel.com/consumer.html celebrite). We try to make the lighting unnecassary by making DCG, we try to make it relevant (not very succesfully!) by incorporating the hologram inside a product and we try to present it well by crafting the product with design criteria that make it look attractive and/or simple. The problem with us and, I suspect, with most of the holographic community, is that we're primarily hackers of light. Speaking for myself, I know little of marketng and have no idea how to even approach stores, restaurants, Vegas etc. Most of these organisations exist under an umbrella organisation deeply buried in some kind of corporate structure and getting through that maze ain't easy. Even if you do get to someone with the authority to order a hologram, how you present yourself - buzz words and phrases, the appropriate jargon - is more important than the thing you're trying to show them. If I knew the proper way of doing these things I could get a pink Flamingos singing Elvis songs faster than I could get holograms in a major outlet!

Perhaps one way out of this is to have a grass roots organisation, perhaps PCG, where the 'ideas' and 'skill' people do their thing and the 'marketing' and 'sales' people then push it into the world. know John FP has suggested this and I know Danny is thinking along these lines.

In the meatime, I think we, as holographers, should press the noses of the public into the hologram. With all of us making holograms, as John has said, we should all show our stuff to everyone we know and get the message out.

Oh, by the way, completely unrelated, I'm going to attempt my first color hologram. Mike Midora has kindly let me jave a couple of his pan plates to try and Larry has lent me his HeNe laser for a couple of days, so now I have the film and I have the RGB. How do you developp in pitch black? I'm used to looking at the safelight to see how dark it's going.

JohnFP

Where are all the holograms?

Post by JohnFP »

"The solution, I think, is first and foremost, either include lighting or make lighting unnecassary."

I agree 100%. That is why I love DCG. That cat in my kitchen is bright and lit with a double florescent light with a diffuse cover on it. Probably the worst lighting possible for a hologram. But it is great.

Dark processing. I know. I used to be able to "see" with my mind in the dark and that has since left me. I work in so much light now, that I don't even have to squint. I love DCG!

The hologram that is set up on my table is for my Unlce that owns a wine and liquor importing company. It is a miniature of one of his products. He does not know I am making it yet but when it is done I want to take it to his office and hang it properly so that the visitors he get from foreign countries see it and is impressed. I then hope that if he likes it he may want a dozen or so for promotional give aways for businesses that carry that product. Of course I will charge him for the give aways. This may put them in liquor stores and restaurants. Well that is the plan anyway.


Greg G

Where are all the holograms?

Post by Greg G »

Excellent points, Michael and one of the better posts I've seen on here in a while.
We tend to spend a lot of energy here on the mechanics and little discussion on what we actually do with the media. It's neat to make 3D images of 3D objects but it's not much of an end game. Sort of like taking photos of test patterns. I suspect we all have our stacks of them.

I spent 15 years making holos of nuclear fuel rods, turbine blades,etc... for work before I ever saw serious art holography ( John Kaufman's Spring Rain ). I stood stunned in front of it until the museum closed and then spent a few hours talking with the director ( Gary Zellerbach ). Since then, I've seen a lot of incredible art which was all or partially based on holography. The Pearl John site posted recently is an excellent example. These folks ( http://holostar.cmaisonneuve.qc.ca/en/i ... ammes.html ) give me hope for the media as well. Unfortunately, I really have to search for them. Art holography seems mostly limited to commissioned works, museums with a bent to the technical and galleries with a flair for the exotic. Not a lot of exposure for a very incredible artform.
And way out of proportion to the interest I see whenever I drag parts of my collection out of the house.

As Dinesh points out ( regularly ), " bodies of holographers and holography companies litter the countryside". Most of the holographers I've known over the decades have quit. ( ex: Kaufman does conventional photography now. ) The holography museums are closed and even the stores aren't exactly what you would consider a commercial success. The SPIE still has a holography user group but I quit reading the Holography proceedings a while back. As for artist appeal, a media which requires some level of technical knowledge in optics, electronics, photo chemistry, a dark room, deep pockets for equipment, permanent setup area isn't a big draw to most people I've talked with despite their fascination with the results.

Dinesh also makes some good points on the commercial side of holography. They're a pain to most vendors/gallery owners that I've talked with. Funny lighting, awkward display spaces, and a very jaded audience looking for Princess Leia or the holodeck.. Even if you buy one, you have to take it home and set up funny lighting in some darkened spot of your home to display your 3D image of a 3D object. ( The best one I've seen recently was a lighting fixture that has a hologram integrated into it. So when you were using the light to read by, you also had the holo to look at ).

From my own POV, I think mainstream success would involve something that holography does uniquely. Not just "gee, it's 3D" but something that you can't visualize/produce any other way and has an appeal beyond the technical aspects. The countryside ( and EBay ) is also littered with DCG medallions, transfers and other novelties that lost their appeal 30 minutes after purchase.

As holographers, I think we could be doing a lot of fairly minor things to market holography.

I drag out parts of my collection to work and other interested parties a few times a year. ( A bright sunny day is great for doing an outdoor exhibit.) I rotate the displays in my office and in our lobby.

Lecture occasionally at schools ( career days, guest speaker...) and loan holograms out for display.

Stop and talk with gallery owners and ask if they have any holograms available or do they occasionally exhibit artists that use holography. Provide contacts / show examples if they aren't.

If a hologram is being displayed badly in a store( lighting,etc...) stop and give pointers. ( Many people have never seen a hologram displayed well and think the fuzzy blurry image is normal. )

Buy good, quality holograms from artists and vendors.. ( The world doesn't need any more Wolfman multi-channels.) Support people doing good work so they'll keep doing it.

Loan out time, space and equipment to people interested in holography but aren't sure they want to make that sort of investment yet.











Dinesh

Where are all the holograms?

Post by Dinesh »

"I spent 15 years making holos of nuclear fuel rods, turbine blades,etc..."
I remember seeing a meter square of a turbine egine in a show about 83 or 84. Yours? excelleant piece!

"As Dinesh points out ( regularly ),..."
So-o-rry. My intent was to get holographers to realise that the world at large is not as facinated with holography as they are. I'd say a good 1/3rd of the people I show holograms to are convinced that they can make a million on this. They believe that the public is going to see them and immediately go "Wow, I've gotta have that". Unfortunately the "Better Mousetrap" concept has gone the way of the dodo ("Make a better mousetrap and the world will beat a path to your door") The public are more likely to flock to the store for a heavily advertised product, especially if by buying the product they have the appearance of being "current" and "cool" - holograms simply don't have that image.

"I think mainstream success would involve something that holography does uniquely."
Absolutely! But what? holograms display 3D uniquely with parallax. However, how many times has anyone looked at an anaglyph or stereo pair and tried to "look around it". The recent Mars photos, for example, were a great hit because they were "3D". yet, orange rocks, even if seen in 3D, are still orange rocks. Nobody complained that there was no parallax. It was a cultural phenomena that seeing Mars in 3D was somehow "cool". Most people who see holograms also simply stare at it not around it.
Holograms can store more than one image (by changing the reference), but, as you say, besides wolfman flips, what are they used for?
You can't get a great deal of depth in a hologram unless you have immediate access to an expanded laser beam.
I have a few suggestions:
Graphics in technical books. These show anything from a cut-away diagram of the inner workings of a dynamo in elementary physics books to surfaces of plots in mathematical books. Vector calculus would be a lot more intuitive if you could see the surface normals, perhaps as a flip image. Publishers I've talked say it's "too expensive" without actually researching the cost and yet textbooks are already priced stratospherically!
Conversion of crystallography data into holograms to see the inner structure of proteins with parallax. I believe this is already being researched.
Medical, as in Voxel's application.
Perhaps we, as holographers, should concentrate a little more on imagery and application and a little less on technique.

Twilight window

Where are all the holograms?

Post by Twilight window »

This thread has produced some reflective answers. I'm a holography enthusiast, too, and have been for nearly 30 yrs now, but no longer expect the public's interest, or the technology itself, to take off.

Think historically, folks. Holograms have been promoted by every combination of enthusiast, huckster, salesman, genius and middleman for exactly four decades now. Every conceivable application and market niche has been investigated, often with loads of money and great expectations. This amounts to a social/economic experiment that has been repeated with many combinations of conditions. The outcome has been the same in every case: the investment capital gets used up, the company/scheme/product proves unviable and the idea fails or else gets rejuvenated for awhile by another gullible investor. The enthusiastic holographers either move on to more profitable activities, or stick with the medium out of love or fascination.

Unfortunately, enthusiasms aren't easily communicated. The world is full of amateur radio, model train and wine-making enthusiasts, but at least they don't nurture a belief that their hobbies will be shared by others or make them any money. Enjoy the hobby - it IS fascinating - but trust the historical precedents that strongly suggest nothing more will come of it.
Michael Harrison

Where are all the holograms?

Post by Michael Harrison »

...but trust the historical precedents that strongly suggest nothing more will come of it.

Spoken like someone who wants to keep the rest of us out of the field. <that's a joke, son>

You may be right, but I don't think so. That thinking may doom me to join the pile of dead holographers, but again, I don't think so.

I believe the real limiting factors are those problems that others have mentioned before in this thread.

o Single purchase (for want of a better term). You shouldn't have to purchase special lighting to view the piece. If special lighting is needed, it should be built-in. Right now, purchasing a hologram is a bit hucksterish in itself. "Here's your hologram, sir. Lighting? Well, no. That's not included but you will need special lighting to view the hologram. I happen to have just the thing for $20 more. Power? Oh, well, no. The light is battery operated but if you want to use wall power I've got a transformer for it for a low price of $15."

o Easy to maintain. Zero maintenance should be the goal. If special lighting is required, replacing batteries is something the buyer shouldn't have to do. Any special power hookups should be reliable.

o Wide viewing angle. It's difficult to draw crowds if only one person can see the image.

just to name a few


---------------------------
If someone says it can't be done and they did try it, try it yourself using different methods.
http://www.dragonseye.com/Holography

Are you going to the next PCG Gathering?
http://www.dragonseye.com/Holography/PCGGI.html
JohnFP

Where are all the holograms?

Post by JohnFP »

I agree Michael and that has been my recent quest in holography. That is to make holograms that need no special lighting. Also a wide viewing angle is a must. Always make your master 4X as big as your copy and get your geometry such that the master can be as close as possible to the copy in copying. Even as a holographer I have not liked holograms with narrow windows.

All these factors have edged me to making DCG single beams. Bright, viewable in non-ideal lighting and very very large viewing windows.

Peace

PS:Holography will take off because the PCG group has been started. We will do what no enthusiast, huckster, salesman, genius and middleman has ever done before and that is to promote holography and share information that allows the increase in the number of holograpers that can continue to carry the ball from prior techniques rather then reinvent the wheel, thus getting more holograms made and more out into the public, ultimately providing public awareness and finally making it a marketable commodity. Phew.... all in one breath.

Peace and prosperity to all holographers!
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