You know, I have been a little confused by this whole subject that seems to be creeping in many threads. We are a holography forum and sharing with other Holographers what we are doing and how we did it on the internet is very unique to holography. Every detail, that every one of us shares help to promote holography. It may now be possible for beginners to start at a point that was impossible pre-internet. Anything anyone posts is relevant to the growth of holography no matter how simplistic or even if it was said or done to gain a pat on the back. As I have stated before, 15 years ago it was difficult to find ANYTHING out about holography except for a couple of books. As every one of us here knows, the time, money and dedication that go into making a hologram is great. And although the self gratification is usually enough, I believe, for me anyway, that hearing another holographer state that my work is good inspires me. I get so excited when my hologram comes out better then the last one that I want to share my excitement.
Colin, I have recently gotten back into holography after 12 or so years ago just this past October and insisted on mastering DCG which was brand new to me. I posted many things about what I was doing to overcome a hurdle in the fabrication and processing of DCG emulsion. Heating the trays, coating the plates, concentrations, etc. My last two sessions proved that I can now make 4 x 5 and 5 x 7 DCG holograms consistent. I have reached that crossroad where I can start to concentrate on the subject matter that I want to present. I am tickled that most test and trial and error work has been done. I actually have someone that wants 20 4 x 5 holograms after seeing my Vodka bottles, and another person that may want some company advertising "give aways" with my holograms. This would not have been possible without each "next step" I have taken. I do not have the luxury of a Newport table or Newport shutter or separate processing rooms or for that matter the time to make holograms 40 hours a week. And being a single provider for a family of 5, money is not limitless. But each engineered solution was obtainable at a very reasonable and justifiable expense.
I have openly thought about and posted every idea that pops into my head with the hopes of someone in holography using it to make a hologram that may be the turning point, not for holography per say, but for the individual producing the hologram. Sometimes my ideas are far off base, sometimes they need revision, sometimes they are not described or drawn the way I envision them but sometime they are right on the money. I never ask for anything in return except that we, Holographers, continue to share out knowledge, excitement and progress with one another so that one day someone may do something that sparks an idea with someone else that takes holography to the moon. We need to stay positive, keep focused and most of all keep having fun.
To the board, if at anytime I post too often or too loudly or seem to want attention please let me know. I take criticism very good and use it to try to make myself a better person. I have felt in the past that sharing everything I was doing was a good thing for the board, but now I question myself.
Health, Peace and Prosperity to all!!!
Sigh........
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Michael Harrison
Sigh........
You know, I have been a little confused by this whole subject that seems to be creeping in many threads. ... I have felt in the past that sharing everything I was doing was a good thing for the board, but now I question myself.
Which subject is bringing you down and why are you questioning your sharing or participation?
If it's the idea that holography has never lived up to its potential (and some think never will), I think that's a problem of perception. It's much like the laser itself. For at least twenty years it was described as the "solution in search of a problem". I think that the holographic medium is still mired in hype and promises but that doesn't mean that it will always be so.
As we both have personally seen, this forum and its participants have been the catalysts for great personal progress in the field and I believe that it and we will continue to progress. I don't know what form that will take but that's the nature of the future.
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If someone says it can't be done but they haven't tried it, don't believe them.
http://www.dragonseye.com/Holography
Are you going to the next PCG Gathering?
http://www.dragonseye.com/Holography/PCGGI.html
Which subject is bringing you down and why are you questioning your sharing or participation?
If it's the idea that holography has never lived up to its potential (and some think never will), I think that's a problem of perception. It's much like the laser itself. For at least twenty years it was described as the "solution in search of a problem". I think that the holographic medium is still mired in hype and promises but that doesn't mean that it will always be so.
As we both have personally seen, this forum and its participants have been the catalysts for great personal progress in the field and I believe that it and we will continue to progress. I don't know what form that will take but that's the nature of the future.
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If someone says it can't be done but they haven't tried it, don't believe them.
http://www.dragonseye.com/Holography
Are you going to the next PCG Gathering?
http://www.dragonseye.com/Holography/PCGGI.html
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Arturo
Sigh........
I, for one, appreciate your posts! They almost always provide useful information, and always food for thought, which is great!
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Dinesh
Sigh........
I think the main problem perhaps lies in the use and identity of the forum. I believe that this forum exists to "share experiences and ideas" about holography. However, there's a hidden assumption that the ideas and experiences are mainly shared by hobby and amateur holographers, and by 'amateur' I mean non-commercial, ie those that don't sell holograms. In that sense, I think I've been pretty forthright about giving advice and help when asked, but I've been very, very careful not to use the forum for marketing or selling. In fact, I've bent over backwards to seperate my commercial identity from my educational/tutorial identity. There's always been an implicit assumption that anyone on the forum who aks about DCG, Silver, photoresist etc does not intend to use this knowledge to go on and become professional (with or without Newport tables!). Should anyone approach me for advice/help and state that they intend to use the information I give them for commercial purposes, I'd consider that to be 'consulting' and charge appropriately. Even teaching about DCG, a knowledge base that seems to be required, would be done as a class which would also be priced. Detailed knowledge I've given out of any aspect of holography which is then used commercially is a little unfair. I strongly believe in the educational purpose of the forum and I don't want to diminish this, but it's a fine line for us to have the faith that this information is not being abused. A case in point may have occured a while back when I was asked for a method for flattening out a Gaussian by 'anonymous'. It was a difficult decision between helping to increase knowledge and gioving 'anonymous' free consulting. While it's true that I can always answer 'confidential' if I don't want to say anything, it's also true that the most apparently trivial of information is sometimes a very valuable piece of information to those for whom it's a major stumbling block in a commercial venture. Another case in point is the 'whities' in DCG. We were stymied for about a year on how to overcome thast and a lot of research maoney and research time were used to solve that problem. Even now, it's not an easy problem and consultants in DCG charge a lot for giving this kind of stuff out. Most companies and individuals would never have shared this but patented it!
I believe that the constant posting of one individual image and long threads about only that image is a sort of marketing and pertains only to that image and not holography in general. If a particular person wants to post a picture of his/her work we're all very glad to see it, but to post that image constatntly and continually ask for comments/improvements to that one image or subtle and small variations of it can be concieved of as over-indulgence.
One reason I bring this up is as I said, to seperate any commercialism from the freely given advice to hobbyists so if anyone is going to 'go professional' that should be stated. I also feel that selling a hologram is professional whether done on a stone slab or a Newport table. To take orders and produce pieces for a specific client is definitely competitive.
I mention this particularly since I am apparently seen as a knowledgeable and experienced holographer - a sort of 'wise old man on the mountain' I know that there are people out there who look through the forum as customers and think of me as some kind of professorial figure. I know that there are some who decry the use of any technical physics or mathematics and expect answers to some very pointed and difficult questions in a simplistic hand-waving manner. This is also a source of confusion for me, since holography is a technical subject. Some kind of questions and discussion cannot be carried out in a hand-waving manner. Perhaps in trying to anser these points, I've achieved this reputation. The painful truth is that we as a business may well be another of the corpses of holography companies by the end of this year. While many out there are continually say that there is a 'renewed interest' in holography, we're not seeing it. Maybe one reason is the persona I seem to have picked up as a source of ready free information, but insignificant in a serious commercial sense.
Yes I'm a little upset because I feel I've been taken advantage of. It's difficult to tow a line between interests and principles. I notice that the paper I wrote on Silver Halide has been turned down by The Holographer and has apparently been lost despite the fact it was specifically written to answer a number of questions. Yet an article that apparently describes methods that are fairly old and well known, such as the use of inner tubes for table stability, is not only accepted but implies that these ideas originated with the author. This is posted on the forum so that people getting onto the forum are directed to this article. This I think is not only a case in point about not being taken seriously, but also a case of marketing on the forum. I notice that, for instance, De Freitas does not post on this forum when there is new information on his forum thus drawing people in from this forum to his.
I hope that this forum remains the premier source of information to amateur holographers but I also hope we don't get bogged down by over indulgence to any particualr hologram or be used as a means of trumping our own abilities as a come-on to prospective customers, or be used as free consulting.
I believe that the constant posting of one individual image and long threads about only that image is a sort of marketing and pertains only to that image and not holography in general. If a particular person wants to post a picture of his/her work we're all very glad to see it, but to post that image constatntly and continually ask for comments/improvements to that one image or subtle and small variations of it can be concieved of as over-indulgence.
One reason I bring this up is as I said, to seperate any commercialism from the freely given advice to hobbyists so if anyone is going to 'go professional' that should be stated. I also feel that selling a hologram is professional whether done on a stone slab or a Newport table. To take orders and produce pieces for a specific client is definitely competitive.
I mention this particularly since I am apparently seen as a knowledgeable and experienced holographer - a sort of 'wise old man on the mountain' I know that there are people out there who look through the forum as customers and think of me as some kind of professorial figure. I know that there are some who decry the use of any technical physics or mathematics and expect answers to some very pointed and difficult questions in a simplistic hand-waving manner. This is also a source of confusion for me, since holography is a technical subject. Some kind of questions and discussion cannot be carried out in a hand-waving manner. Perhaps in trying to anser these points, I've achieved this reputation. The painful truth is that we as a business may well be another of the corpses of holography companies by the end of this year. While many out there are continually say that there is a 'renewed interest' in holography, we're not seeing it. Maybe one reason is the persona I seem to have picked up as a source of ready free information, but insignificant in a serious commercial sense.
Yes I'm a little upset because I feel I've been taken advantage of. It's difficult to tow a line between interests and principles. I notice that the paper I wrote on Silver Halide has been turned down by The Holographer and has apparently been lost despite the fact it was specifically written to answer a number of questions. Yet an article that apparently describes methods that are fairly old and well known, such as the use of inner tubes for table stability, is not only accepted but implies that these ideas originated with the author. This is posted on the forum so that people getting onto the forum are directed to this article. This I think is not only a case in point about not being taken seriously, but also a case of marketing on the forum. I notice that, for instance, De Freitas does not post on this forum when there is new information on his forum thus drawing people in from this forum to his.
I hope that this forum remains the premier source of information to amateur holographers but I also hope we don't get bogged down by over indulgence to any particualr hologram or be used as a means of trumping our own abilities as a come-on to prospective customers, or be used as free consulting.
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Danny bruza
Sigh........
thats why i setting up PCG web site and the web galorie.. thers even a like chat for the PCG'ers....its not taking away from this forum...but foucusinng area's that will help to the level of your comimitment to holography.. and will also help this forum keep foucus
your servent and friend danny
your servent and friend danny
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Danny bruza
Sigh........
thats why i setting up PCG web site and the web galorie.. thers even a like chat for the PCG'ers....its not taking away from this forum...but foucusinng area's that will help to the level of your comimitment to holography.. and will also help this forum keep foucus
your servent and friend danny
your servent and friend danny
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Michael Harrison
Sigh........
JohnFP and Dinesh,
What have I missed here? Has someone gone off and made a killing based on the information they've gleaned from the posts on this board? Has someone used the information without giving credit where it's due, or worse by claiming credit? I've skimmed the posts from the last week but I didn't see any that leaped out at me as hidden "I'm working in a corporate lab and don't want to look like an idiot at work, can you give me the answer?" posts but I'm not certain I'd recognize such a one.
The two of you are easily the most visible here and quite honestly, I just flat out can't keep up with your posting frequency or your knowledge. While I'd like to help out more here, the truth is that one of you more often than not responds before I've had a chance, even when I have the answer (and I'm still pretty much a babe at this compared to you two).
What have I missed here? Has someone gone off and made a killing based on the information they've gleaned from the posts on this board? Has someone used the information without giving credit where it's due, or worse by claiming credit? I've skimmed the posts from the last week but I didn't see any that leaped out at me as hidden "I'm working in a corporate lab and don't want to look like an idiot at work, can you give me the answer?" posts but I'm not certain I'd recognize such a one.
The two of you are easily the most visible here and quite honestly, I just flat out can't keep up with your posting frequency or your knowledge. While I'd like to help out more here, the truth is that one of you more often than not responds before I've had a chance, even when I have the answer (and I'm still pretty much a babe at this compared to you two).
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JohnFP
Sigh........
Focus? What is the focus of this forum? I thought it was...
"This is a forum to share experiences and ideas about holography."
It states nothing about a direction or restriction or amature or professional. There is no contract, and most that post their holograms state how they were made, specifically!
I for one think Dinesh should post photos of his holograms on this board to excite others about holography. If he get business from it then so be it he deserves it. Now if he posted every hologram he made every day and specifically tried to use this forum as an avenue to sell his work then I could see a quivel. But heck, and I think I speak for most, I would love to see his work here.
Anyone want to vote?
Who thinks it would be ethical for Dinesh to post photos of his hologram on this forum?
I do!
Respectfully,
JohnFP.
"This is a forum to share experiences and ideas about holography."
It states nothing about a direction or restriction or amature or professional. There is no contract, and most that post their holograms state how they were made, specifically!
I for one think Dinesh should post photos of his holograms on this board to excite others about holography. If he get business from it then so be it he deserves it. Now if he posted every hologram he made every day and specifically tried to use this forum as an avenue to sell his work then I could see a quivel. But heck, and I think I speak for most, I would love to see his work here.
Anyone want to vote?
Who thinks it would be ethical for Dinesh to post photos of his hologram on this forum?
I do!
Respectfully,
JohnFP.
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JohnFP
Sigh........
It may be all me but I took a little offense of the posting http://www.network54.com/Forum/message? ... 1085704334
I feel like a lot of that post was directed to me and I have been posting too many photos of my holograms and my excitement should be contained more.
There was so much I wanted to say but I contained myself and simply joked if he forgot to take his pill. It is something I say to a friend if they are venting to try to get them to laugh. I did post anymore on that thread and dropped the entire matter.
Dinesh, I formally and humbly state that I am very sorry if I offended you in any way!
I feel like a lot of that post was directed to me and I have been posting too many photos of my holograms and my excitement should be contained more.
There was so much I wanted to say but I contained myself and simply joked if he forgot to take his pill. It is something I say to a friend if they are venting to try to get them to laugh. I did post anymore on that thread and dropped the entire matter.
Dinesh, I formally and humbly state that I am very sorry if I offended you in any way!
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Colin Kaminski
Sigh........
My job is to build the forum. I have found all of us have very different things to contribute and I look forward to everyone's posts. John, you bring some much needed enthusiasm to the forum. And I for one really appreciate it. Dinish brings a marvelous willingness to share his knowledge with long well thought out posts. I tend to offer answers easily available in the text books as I have read most of them. I don't have the experience of many posters so I try to stay out of the threads that require a large experience base. We lost holodisk over this kind of conflicted ego. I think all will agree, while not everyone liked his posts we all read each one with great interest. I for one miss the controversy he brought to the forum.
Dinesh, I have not noticed people using the forum to advertise. Perhaps I am not as sensitive as you are to it because I have never sold a hologram. Advertising should be done on individual web sites. I am happy to provide links to professional web sites. Thank you so much for sharing your wealth of information. I felt a little guilty after I posted about the film holder you built. It is such an improvement over mine that I was just too excited. I know you spent a great deal of time and money to develop the film holder.
Because we can not see the facial expressions of the posters we need to be careful about posting and reading posts. It is easy to have our feelings hurt by a mis-understanding. I know I had my feelings hurt recently by one of the posters and it affected me quite profoundly. I am now finally getting back into the studio to work.
Dinesh, I have not noticed people using the forum to advertise. Perhaps I am not as sensitive as you are to it because I have never sold a hologram. Advertising should be done on individual web sites. I am happy to provide links to professional web sites. Thank you so much for sharing your wealth of information. I felt a little guilty after I posted about the film holder you built. It is such an improvement over mine that I was just too excited. I know you spent a great deal of time and money to develop the film holder.
Because we can not see the facial expressions of the posters we need to be careful about posting and reading posts. It is easy to have our feelings hurt by a mis-understanding. I know I had my feelings hurt recently by one of the posters and it affected me quite profoundly. I am now finally getting back into the studio to work.