Hi,
As a vegetarian, wanting to trade with holograms - it is very important to me.
Do you know?
Do all holographic plates and films use GELATIN?
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dave battin
Do all holographic plates and films use GELATIN?
some holograms are made using polymer.
see the ink below, most or all former Polaroid,Red Beam holograms were made using this material
http://www.holographyforum.org/HoloWiki ... _Processes
see the ink below, most or all former Polaroid,Red Beam holograms were made using this material
http://www.holographyforum.org/HoloWiki ... _Processes
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MichaelH
Do all holographic plates and films use GELATIN?
ronsheffer1 wrote:Hi,
As a vegetarian, wanting to trade with holograms - it is very important to me.
Do you know?
That's an aspect of vegetarianism I hadn't considered before (I'm not a vegetarian).
Are you currently planning on buying your plates/film or will you be making your own? If the latter, would you consider using fish gelatin? It might be more expensive but I could see that it would be perhaps possible to make gelatin from certain seaweeds.
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Colin Kaminski
Do all holographic plates and films use GELATIN?
There are manyways to make holograms from plastics as well. I once saw a system that recorded transmision holograms in a plastic as waves, when you no longer needed the hologram you heat it up and it was a blank piece of film. It was great for nondestructive testing.
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ronsheffer1
Do all holographic plates and films use GELATIN?
Because Gelatin is made of fish/pork bones, I have an idiological problem with holograms. 
I was so disappointed to find out that this is so. If you guys have any way of enlightning me with different information that will allow me to continue my holographic collecting/trade - PLEASE DO!!!
Thanks.
I was so disappointed to find out that this is so. If you guys have any way of enlightning me with different information that will allow me to continue my holographic collecting/trade - PLEASE DO!!!Thanks.
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MichaelH
Do all holographic plates and films use GELATIN?
ronsheffer1 wrote:Because Gelatin is made of fish/pork bones, I have an idiological problem with holograms.
Thanks.
Are you merely buying/trading holograms? Not making them?
If so, you'll be limited to trading cell phone & security holograms for the most part.
There are some holograms that made on plastic polymer (the ones I sell from Lon Moore are non-gelatin) but you'll have to look carefully.
Having said that though, I have seen a fair amount of polymer holograms on ebay lately.
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Ed Wesly
Do all holographic plates and films use GELATIN?
This is so amazingly silly! I got news for you, Mr. Veggie! All photographic film and papers use gelatin. Water color and other artists' papers use gelatin as a size so the paint doesn't soak into the paper. Are you going to stop taking chemical photographs or even looking at them just because they use animal parts?
Do you eat jelly beans or marshmallows? Almost all gelatin!
Just because you have this eating disorder (which is what I call vegetarianism; look at me, I am so much purer than you, not killing animals, etc.) you're going to deprive yourself of so many of life's visual pleasures?
If you look at the eyes of the animal kingdom, some have their eyes facing forward for 3-D vision, like us humans, (oh, another reason not to collect holograms!) to stalk prey, the animals that have eyes on the sides of their heads to look out for the predators!
The use of gelatin in light sensitive systems goes back to the 1870's, so pretty much all of mechanical image making would seem to be verboten to you. When it comes to embossed holograms, usually the master (at least where I worked) was done on a gelatin plate. I know for a fact that gelatin based H1's and H2's were used for Polaroid photopolymers (the Red Beams).
Gelatin is proof that no part of the animal goes to waste! Maybe us Americans eat way too much meat, but meat is an important part of the human metabolism. So if you are so trapped up in the vegetarian ideology that it bars you from collecting holograms and maybe even photographs, I would suggest that you take another introspective look at it.
Do you eat jelly beans or marshmallows? Almost all gelatin!
Just because you have this eating disorder (which is what I call vegetarianism; look at me, I am so much purer than you, not killing animals, etc.) you're going to deprive yourself of so many of life's visual pleasures?
If you look at the eyes of the animal kingdom, some have their eyes facing forward for 3-D vision, like us humans, (oh, another reason not to collect holograms!) to stalk prey, the animals that have eyes on the sides of their heads to look out for the predators!
The use of gelatin in light sensitive systems goes back to the 1870's, so pretty much all of mechanical image making would seem to be verboten to you. When it comes to embossed holograms, usually the master (at least where I worked) was done on a gelatin plate. I know for a fact that gelatin based H1's and H2's were used for Polaroid photopolymers (the Red Beams).
Gelatin is proof that no part of the animal goes to waste! Maybe us Americans eat way too much meat, but meat is an important part of the human metabolism. So if you are so trapped up in the vegetarian ideology that it bars you from collecting holograms and maybe even photographs, I would suggest that you take another introspective look at it.
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Martin
Do all holographic plates and films use GELATIN?
ronsheffer1 wrote:Hi,
As a vegetarian, wanting to trade with holograms - it is very important to me.
Do you know?
If there was sufficient demand, we might do some research on “vegetarian” holographic materials.
Principally, a great many colloids could be used for silver halide and dichromated systems.
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walschuler
Do all holographic plates and films use GELATIN?
In principle holograms, like any photograph, can be produced in any fixable light sensitive material, with sufficient resolution. In the history of photography gazillions (a technical term!) of different emulsions have been tried. Recently (see the 2006 Daguerreian Annual) a hologram was produced on a daguerreotype plate; it was in silver halide on polished silver on a copper plate with no emulsion. It was very slow and of poor visual quality. Photopolymers of various sorts have been used, as referred to above. Photoresists are included. These typically can get higher resolution than gelatin based emulsions, and may be dry-processed by heat or UV, but are also as a group less sensitive than gelatin based emulsions, usually much less sensitive. They are harder to sensitize in the red, though it is possible, and often people use powerful (and expensive) argon lasers in the green to do this work. I don't know if we have much in the Wiki on this, but you might google Richard Rallison + holograms; he has done a lot of work on alcohol based polymers and on broad-band sensitization.
As Lippmann demonstrated when he pioneered his interference color photography technique (see the Lippmann part of this site), albumin and collodion both work to make high resolution emulsions. Albumin is of course from eggs, but collodion is from vegetable and mineral sources. It was used for wet plate photography in the mid 1800s for ambrotypes (google!) I have had a student take up ambrotypes. Making the emulsion involves handling ether, which is seriously dangerous. Since Lippmann succeeded in producing emulsions with resolution needed for holos (greater than 5,000 lpmm) one could do this for holos. But the emulsion has to be used damp or what little sensitivity it has is lost. I have never heard of anyone doing this, but it might be an interesting experiment to try...Hmmm.. must talk to my student...Lippmann ended up with gelatin, for the same reason photography did in general: it is the fastest emulsion with sufficient resolution that is known. (And as Ed Wesly pointed out, gelatin is nearly ubiquitous for many uses.)
So you have a possibly interesting project, and there is probably more than one way to make vegetarian holo emulsions, but you will almost certainly be signing up for very long exposures, or powerful and expensive
lasers, or both.
As Lippmann demonstrated when he pioneered his interference color photography technique (see the Lippmann part of this site), albumin and collodion both work to make high resolution emulsions. Albumin is of course from eggs, but collodion is from vegetable and mineral sources. It was used for wet plate photography in the mid 1800s for ambrotypes (google!) I have had a student take up ambrotypes. Making the emulsion involves handling ether, which is seriously dangerous. Since Lippmann succeeded in producing emulsions with resolution needed for holos (greater than 5,000 lpmm) one could do this for holos. But the emulsion has to be used damp or what little sensitivity it has is lost. I have never heard of anyone doing this, but it might be an interesting experiment to try...Hmmm.. must talk to my student...Lippmann ended up with gelatin, for the same reason photography did in general: it is the fastest emulsion with sufficient resolution that is known. (And as Ed Wesly pointed out, gelatin is nearly ubiquitous for many uses.)
So you have a possibly interesting project, and there is probably more than one way to make vegetarian holo emulsions, but you will almost certainly be signing up for very long exposures, or powerful and expensive
lasers, or both.