Looking to start holography - where do I even start?

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dave battin

Looking to start holography - where do I even start?

Post by dave battin » Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:23 am

Beta7 wrote:Although I screwed it up this time as well - let it settle BEFORE putting the plate on the pile of coins (kit had no holder :think: ), then give it only 2-3 minutes to settle after putting the plate on the tray.
why did you not let it settle for 1/2 hour after placing the film plate on your object?

the plate should be setting on three points like three screws glued with heads down and the film plate sits on the screw points (not touching object).
if you dont wait for settle times , you will continue to waste plates .........

rzeheb

Looking to start holography - where do I even start?

Post by rzeheb » Wed Mar 24, 2010 11:27 am

Beta,
What plates are you using? Make absolutely sure that they do not have anti-halation coating.
Ron

JohnFP

Looking to start holography - where do I even start?

Post by JohnFP » Wed Mar 24, 2010 11:48 am

I think some of the advice is getting side tracked. He has the Integraf kit which has no holder, SBR film PFG 03M), a diode and that's about it. From what I have seen in the past the object is placed in a cup of sand with the plate leaning right against it. The laser is held by a cloths pin and is in another cup of sand. But I believe he is lying the plate right on the coins, which is very good. Actually, lying the plate on the object, if it is stable, it the best set up for stability.

Beta7, describe your set up just so we can all know what you are doing but here are my suggestions below. How the laser is held, where the object sets, how the plate sets, what kind of safe light you have.

Movement is only and issue with SBR (Single Beam Reflection) hologram between the glass film and the object. It sounds as if you are lying your plate directly on the coins. This is a very very stable set up. Definitely let the plate set on the coins at least 10 - 15 minutes before opening the shutter. The film you are using is very very sensitive to light. So once you take the plate out of the box it has to be safe lights only. If your safelights are not specifically good enough then it is best to get used to taking the plate out of the box and putting it on the coins in pitch dark. The film you are using is most sensitive to read and least sensitive to blue. See if you can find a blue laser pen, those cheap ones. Then take a couple and dont shine them directly on the exposing area or developing tray, but rather bounce the light off a near by wall or ceiling. Make sure there is absolutely no laser light from the laser, even though it is behind a shutter, hitting the plate. Or even bouncing off a wall or table hitting the plate. NO laser light can hit the plate, It will fog the plate quickly. Remeber, you can overexpose too, so don't up your exposure time thinking it will help. Follow the instructions exactly to the best of your ability for a start. If you do have a good blue safelight and can see the film develping in the developer, how long does it take the film to go pretty black in the devoper?

JohnFP

Looking to start holography - where do I even start?

Post by JohnFP » Wed Mar 24, 2010 12:08 pm

Oh, one last suggestion. Make sure your plate sets stable on the coins. That is, after you put the plate on the coins, tap the plate with your finger nail easily on different areas of the plate and maker sure the plate does not rock, bounce, slide, jiggle, wiggle or move. With experience, you can listen to the tap of you finger nail on different parts of the plate and they should all sound solid and the same. Make sure the coins are on a very solid metal or mason surface, not wood or plasic. Finally, if you cannot get a stable plate placement try this set up. The three outer coins make a very stable tripod, the center coin is the one you are holographing. Remeber, this all has to be on a concrete paver or piece of steel.
aaaSBRCOINS.JPG
aaaSBRCOINS.JPG (6.47 KiB) Viewed 3741 times

dave battin

Looking to start holography - where do I even start?

Post by dave battin » Wed Mar 24, 2010 12:18 pm

or a large marble tile (easily acessable!) or a small tile that is laid in the sand bed.

good words John and Ron, though i have had wobbely coins in the past,this is why i suggested the short screws instead............

Which advise was sidetracked?
Last edited by dave battin on Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.

rzeheb

Looking to start holography - where do I even start?

Post by rzeheb » Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:31 pm

I'm sure John was referring to my comment/question; and he is undoubtedly right.

However, we are all influenced by our own experiences. When I first started trying to make holograms I went straight to green. The very first box of plates I ever ordered were VRP-M plates from Integraf. I tried, unsuccessfully, to shoot very simple SBR holos. I burned nearly half a box of plates before realizing that even though I ordered VRP-M plates (I even double checked the invoice to be sure) they actually sent me VRP plates (with anti-halation coating). The box of plates they sent clearly said VRP but since I knew I ordered VRP-M and the invoice said VRP-M (and since I was a rank novice) I guess I assumed that somehow it was O.K. The frustration that ensued is etched in my brain and was something I hoped to spare any other novice from experiencing. Nevertheless, John's analysis of the likely problem (fogging of the plate) is MUCH more likely to be the real problem and his advice will likely set Beta7 on the right path.
Ron

JohnFP

Looking to start holography - where do I even start?

Post by JohnFP » Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:04 pm

Yes, I agree, a plate could be wobbly on and thus my second post. Three screws will do just as nicely as the three coins i mentioned. I think I also forgot to mention that the inner single coin should be thinner then the three outer coins.

Ron, didn't even think about that, getting the wrong film. Good call. :silenced:

Beta7

Looking to start holography - where do I even start?

Post by Beta7 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:35 am

JohnFP wrote:Beta7, describe your set up just so we can all know what you are doing but here are my suggestions below. How the laser is held, where the object sets, how the plate sets, what kind of safe light you have.

Movement is only and issue with SBR (Single Beam Reflection) hologram between the glass film and the object. It sounds as if you are lying your plate directly on the coins. This is a very very stable set up. Definitely let the plate set on the coins at least 10 - 15 minutes before opening the shutter. The film you are using is very very sensitive to light. So once you take the plate out of the box it has to be safe lights only. If your safelights are not specifically good enough then it is best to get used to taking the plate out of the box and putting it on the coins in pitch dark. The film you are using is most sensitive to read and least sensitive to blue. See if you can find a blue laser pen, those cheap ones. Then take a couple and dont shine them directly on the exposing area or developing tray, but rather bounce the light off a near by wall or ceiling. Make sure there is absolutely no laser light from the laser, even though it is behind a shutter, hitting the plate. Or even bouncing off a wall or table hitting the plate. NO laser light can hit the plate, It will fog the plate quickly. Remeber, you can overexpose too, so don't up your exposure time thinking it will help. Follow the instructions exactly to the best of your ability for a start. If you do have a good blue safelight and can see the film develping in the developer, how long does it take the film to go pretty black in the devoper?
I have a wheeled kitchen table thing that is 2' x 3', with 4 garden tractor tire tubes fully inflated and sitting on top. Then I have 2' x 3' x 8" tub that is half filled with sand. I am on a slightly sloped concrete floor, and in our storage room, and there is no light getting directly on the plates (white nightlight covered by Rosco #90 underneath table). The developing sink (I have 1 utility sink with 4 dishes in there (not using the "wetting solution" yet) is a little ways away, but has a little bit of light shining through the bottom of the white sink. Could this be part of my problem?

I didn't know I could overexpose - figured that since 15 seconds didn't work, I should go up to 30. So I did (on my second plate). I guess I'll go back to 15 seconds.

I don't know exactly how long it takes, but it usually starts turning black 15-20 seconds after putting it into the developer and does not seem to get darker after about 1.5 minutes.

I think my problem might just be that I didn't let the table settle for 15-30 minutes after putting the plate down ('cause I got confused/mixed up last night :(). However, I'd like to try and fix as much as possible, so I hopefully don't keep wasting plates. :P


*I might be able to upload pictures of the 2 plates I already shot (so you guys can maybe try to see what's wrong with them), and my setup, if that will help.

Beta7

Looking to start holography - where do I even start?

Post by Beta7 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:38 am

JohnFP wrote:Yes, I agree, a plate could be wobbly on and thus my second post. Three screws will do just as nicely as the three coins i mentioned. I think I also forgot to mention that the inner single coin should be thinner then the three outer coins.

Ron, didn't even think about that, getting the wrong film. Good call. :silenced:
I will go check what the box says right now, and edit this post when I find out what type they sent me. ;)


*EDIT* - The plates are "PFG-01" and "red sensitive 633 nm". Also, I'm just using an upside-down mouse pad (for the black background) on top of my sand - should I switch to a linoleum tile or something?

dave battin

Looking to start holography - where do I even start?

Post by dave battin » Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:07 am

Beta7 wrote: Also, I'm just using an upside-down mouse pad (for the black background) on top of my sand - should I switch to a linoleum tile or something?
are your objects sitting on this wobbley surface?

yes the object should be glued (or well set) onto the hard tile .......................

then the hard tile need three screws glued to it ,then place your plate on these screws, this whole set-up needs to sit in your sand filled tub for at least 1/2 hour......

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