Homemade Plates

Starting point for beginners questions.
Heferkimbo
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:13 am

Homemade Plates

Post by Heferkimbo »

So, i recently started reading all about holograms and got interested right away. But as a beginner, instead of buying one of those cool Holo Kits with everything needed to start making your own holograms, i decided to buy everything by myself with the exception of the plates. But after finding some instructions for making your own silver halide plates, i think DIY is the way to go. I have always enjoyed the DIY process as it is more fun and rewarding (and it saves money).

I decided for this silver halide process as it's easier for me to achieve with my resources, compared to some other tutorials that require an oven (not common in japan) to heat the glass or a warmer to leave the plate overnight at a certain temperature. I can get all the required chemicals right here in Tokyo with Tokyo Chemical Industry.

I just have some questions that hopefully you can help me clear out.

1. What's the shelf life of the plates. Do i have to keep them refrigerated?
2. Are they good? or Is the "upgraded" plate mentioned in the A SHORTCUT THAT IS ADVISABLE FOR FIRST TESTS in the previous link better/brighter?
3. Will this step work to make the glass gelatin ready instead of the Acetone and 3-amino-propyltriethoxysilane?

Well, i think that's it for now guys. Sorry for posting 2 questions in the forum in a row!
Martin
Posts: 131
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2015 2:36 am

Re: Homemade Plates

Post by Martin »

Take a look at this site, please: http://d-i-yscience.blogspot.ch/2016/04 ... glass.html

That‘s certainly the most advanced way of making a D.I.Y. holographic silver halide plate.
Heferkimbo
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:13 am

Re: Homemade Plates

Post by Heferkimbo »

Thats the one!.. i don't have an oven with a thermostat but i guess i'll have to make it work with an oven toaster and a digital themomether at hand and monitor those 50ºc very close. Thank you for the info.

By the way, after the plates are ready, do they last long? or should they be used asap?. Apart from keeping them away from light sources, do i need to keep them refrigerated? or a kitchen cabinet will do?
Heferkimbo
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:13 am

Re: Homemade Plates

Post by Heferkimbo »

Hello again. I finally bought all the chemicals listed in the link provided by Martin for Mr. Jeff's method, but I'm already having issues. First, I decided to make 200ml of stock solution so I used 24gr of gelatin leaf (Japanese brand of 220~240 bloom approx.)

I placed the 24gr of gelatin leaf in 200ml of cold DI water in a beaker, then inside the 50ºc warm water bath for around 45 minutes until everything was dissolved and very fluid. Then, used a very fine stainless steel mesh to filter the froth. Added 1gr of copper sulphate to 6ml of DI water and mixed very well until no particles were visible. Until this point everything was fine and the gelatin changed from a yellowish color to a blue one.

Adding the 8ml of glycerin made the gelatin solution very thick and trying to stir it only made it lumpy and never went to being fluid again. I made sure the solution was warm at all times (48ºc~50ºc). I'm pretty sure the Glycerin is the culprit here. Should I pour it at the same temperature as the gelatin because it was at 21ºc (room temperature).

Is there something obvious I'm missing?
Any help will be much appreciated
Martin
Posts: 131
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2015 2:36 am

Re: Homemade Plates

Post by Martin »

Hi.
Sounds weird. As I learned the hard way, chemical purity might always be an issue.
If your glycerin/glycerol were the culprit, it might suggest the presence of a hardening agent - maybe some aldehyde preservative?
Heferkimbo
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:13 am

Re: Homemade Plates

Post by Heferkimbo »

Perhaps... but the bottle doesn't mention anything else like a preservative. I just says how to properly handle it, hazards and stuff like that.
The bottle doesn't mention it but the purity of this Reagent is 99% with an average molar mass of 92.09. There is another Glycerol from the same manufacturer with a "Special Grade" tag, also 99% just a little bit more expensive, just barely. I saw another brands (non Reagents) in Amazon.jp but with a glycerol concentration of around 80%. Can Reagents have preservatives? sorry i don't know much about chemicals.

Tomorrow morning i'll call and ask them about preservatives used in the Glycerol i currently have at home. Should i try the Special Grade one or the cheaper (by half) Glycerol brands with 80% purity?.
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Din
Posts: 402
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2015 4:47 pm

Re: Homemade Plates

Post by Din »

There are two possibilities I can think of:
1. The OH in the glycerine is cross linking the gelatin
2. The pH may be wrong, either too acidic or too basic.

However, adding gelatin to glycerine is the basis of what's called "green plastic" or "bioplastic". So, the intent of adding the two may be to actually stiffen it. Adding some additives, such as vinegar or alcohol may mitigate the stiffness.

http://green-plastics.net/posts/366/add ... r-gelatin/
http://green-plastics.net/posts/69/qaa- ... d-vinegar/
http://green-plastics.net/posts/433/gly ... tives-for/


So, perhaps the water is not hot enough. Try making the water much hotter.
Heferkimbo
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:13 am

Re: Homemade Plates

Post by Heferkimbo »

I followed Din's advice to no avail, so i decided to buy a lower bloom gelatin from amazon.jp and after i got it tried once again and guess what, everything was fine... but something very curious called my attention, the new gelatin package has a white rectangle in the back where big red bold number show the expiration date. The new one expires in 2 years the old one has an empty field.

I think the guy that sold me the first gelatin gave me a very expired one and erased the number with acetone or something because i bought the same kind again and this time it had perfectly clear expiration date on the back and gave me no problems with the glycerol. Both gelatins (new ones) are sold/shipped directly from amazon and not a third party. Do different blooms give different results? im making 2 batches of plates right now. Lets see how thing go.


Once again, thank you very much.
jeff-blyth
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:41 am

Re: Homemade Plates

Post by jeff-blyth »

Hi Heferkimbo,
I have today written a reply in the AgX section of this forum and have now noticed your thread. So how did your batches work out? I would like to know please. I had not considered the gelatin side of things that you raised. It is such a variable beast because it can come from various beasts I suppose.
Jeff
Heferkimbo
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:13 am

Re: Homemade Plates

Post by Heferkimbo »

Hello Mr. Jeff.
I should have known something was off with the first gelatin as it was extremely brittle to the point that trying to bend it would cause it to "explode" and send pieces flying everywhere, but my only experience with gelatin at that point was just eating it. The new one is very flexible.

As for the batches...well, the first one consisted of six individual 8x8cm sheets and being this my first try I must say I learned a lot from it and especifically how to coat. But in the end I got those horrible white stains you mention in your tutorial.

The second try was a large 16x24cm sheet like yours, but working with a bigger sheet proved to be harder and got many artifacts in the surface, such as dripping patterns and small bubbles that prevented an even flow after the wetting. And it was very unpleasant to look at all those imperfections.

Right now I'm running my third batch again with the smaller 8x8cm sheets because I realized it was easier to coat and I didn't get that many artifacts... at the cost of extra work (6X). Right now they are inside the 10% Potassium Nitrate soln. and hopefully this time i won't get those white spots, to prevent this I bought a pack of 100 disposable plastic gloves, a mask with filters to avoid breathing on the plates and mini glass suction cups to avoid habdling the glass directly.

I would just like to ask a quick question. my sheets are yellow after the silver/dye/ascobic bath, is that how hey should look?. I don't know at what point in the process the turned yellow because I was afraid of ruining the silver soln. so I worked under the green safe light while applying the silver nitrate. Only after I discarded them and inspected them under normal lighting I saw it's color.

I'm sorry for the long reply. And thank you for sharing your method with the rest of us, it has been a very fun experience and hopefully I can finish my third batch successfully.
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