will Silver-Chloride work for shsg?

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pascal jardin
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2017 4:24 pm

will Silver-Chloride work for shsg?

Post by pascal jardin »

I have no experience with holography, but I want to create a full color hologram

i followed this youtube tutorial https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAWaFuteQW8 It is a "how to" for a (dcg) hologram which uses ammonium dichromate. I am fond of this method since there are few materials.

I want to create a full color hologram, which as i understand is a SHSG hologram that uses Silver-Halide instead of ammonium dichromate

http://holowiki.org/wiki/Recording_Mate ... in_gelatin

looking up Silver-Halide, Silver Chloride is considered to be Silver-Halide and is relatively cheap to buy on amazon. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01AC ... V9JNW5ETIC

Will I get a full color hologram if I replace the ammonium (or potassium) dichromate with Silver Chloride and use red, green and blue lasers?

if not, what is an easy and simple SHSG formula for a full color hologram?

thanks in advance,
Pascal

p.s
I'm making the hologram for my dad's birthday! I'm making a 3d clay model of the "bsd daemon" and i want the hologram to be able to show the red, green, white and yellow colors in its full glory! I already have the red, green and blue lasers set up to create a white laser. I just need to make the plate now :D
jrburns47
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2015 2:48 pm
Location: Oyster Bay, NY

Re: will Silver-Chloride work for shsg?

Post by jrburns47 »

Not saying you won't get it right the first (or second or third...) time, but strongly suggest getting your father something else for his birthday while you work this out! :-)
Din
Posts: 402
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2015 4:47 pm

Re: will Silver-Chloride work for shsg?

Post by Din »

There are a number of errors:
pascal jardin wrote:I want to create a full color hologram, which as i understand is a SHSG hologram that uses Silver-Halide instead of ammonium dichromate
No. It is very difficult to make full colour holograms in dcg. Dcg does not have the sensitivity* to get into the reds and oranges. To make blue/green holograms in dcg, you have to use advanced techniques such as pseudo-colour swelling and/or multiple lasers.

SHSG refers to Silver Halide Sensitized Gelatin. DCG holograms are considered to be brighter than silver halide holograms. But, dcg holograms are very difficult to make, and silver halide holograms are relatively straightforward. So the SHSG technique allows you to make a (dimmer) silver halide hologram, and then convert it to a (brighter) dcg hologram. However, the SHSG technique is not easy.
pascal jardin wrote:looking up Silver-Halide, Silver Chloride is considered to be Silver-Halide and is relatively cheap to buy on amazon
This implies you're trying to make your own silver halide plates. Despite the stuff written on the internet, it's not an easy process, at least, it's not easy to get good results. If you truly want to make a hologram, it's far easier to buy commercial plates. Integraf ( http://www.integraf.com/ ) provides film, and a kit with instructions that has everything you need to make holograms (but not colour ones).
pascal jardin wrote:Will I get a full color hologram if I replace the ammonium (or potassium) dichromate with Silver Chloride and use red, green and blue lasers?
No. Replacing NH/K dichromate with silver chloride will not make pan material, ie it won't be sensitive across the spectrum.

*To make a monochromatic (one colour) hologram, you need to illuminate the object, and let the reflected light fall on a (very!) sensitive photographic plate. The ultra-high sensitivity plates can be obtained from a nhumber of sources; I've already mentioned Integraf. However, the object will only reflect whatever component it has of the laser colour. So, if you're using a red laser, the object will only reflect red. If the object has any green or blue, the object will not reflect those colours. So, the object reflects red, and you get red -> orange (depending on your chemistry, which is a whole new headache!). If the object contains a whole set of different colours, ie it's a multi-coloured object, then you need to illuminate with red, green, blue lasers at least (some holographers use more than 7 colours to capture the best colour profile). Now, the object will reflect all the colours of the object, ie it'll look coloured under the laser(s) illumination. However, now the holographic plate you use has to "see" all those colours. Such a plate is called a "pan" plane - short for 'panchromatic'. There are sources for such plates, most hobbyist holographers seem to use Ultimate ( http://www.ultimate-holography.com/ ), but Liti ( https://www.litiholo.com/hologram_kits.html) also makes pan plates and they also provide kits.

But, the biggest difficulty is that you have to be fairly proficient in making monochroamtic holograms before you venture into full colour. So, it's not something you can do "off-the bat", like following a recipe.
jrburns47 wrote:Not saying you won't get it right the first (or second or third...) time, but strongly suggest getting your father something else for his birthday while you work this out! :-)
Agree. But, I suggest that you may be able to find a holographer in your local area who can help you make colour holograms. I'm in the San Diego area, if you can get to me, I can walk you through the process.
pascal jardin
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2017 4:24 pm

Re: will Silver-Chloride work for shsg?

Post by pascal jardin »

THANK YOU Din!

I would hug you right now if I could, the
is exactly what I need! I can't believe I was going to make my own holographic plate! The ultimate-holography has a color plate kit that is exactly what I need :)

the only thing I have to ask now, is for working with the plate I know that as soon as I open it has to be in a dark room, but to see what I am doing do I use a uv light? I remember reading somewhere that a uv light will not mess up your holographic plate.

thank you so much for your time,
Pascal
Din
Posts: 402
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2015 4:47 pm

Re: will Silver-Chloride work for shsg?

Post by Din »

pascal jardin wrote:the only thing I have to ask now, is for working with the plate I know that as soon as I open it has to be in a dark room, but to see what I am doing do I use a uv light? I remember reading somewhere that a uv light will not mess up your holographic plate.
Actually, uv light will only make matters worse. Most pan material is quite sensitive in the uv region.

When I use pan material, I generally have a dim orange led. A few years back Fuji asked me to test some pan material they were thinking of marketing, and they gave me an orange fluorescent bulb. So, dim orange is probably best. One thing to be aware of, don't let the orange light directly illuminate the plates, try to remove and load the plate with the orange light pointing away from your box of plates and your plate holder.

If you're really going to go through with trying a full colour piece without trying a monochromatic holo first, I've got to say, it's awfully brave!
Martin
Posts: 131
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2015 2:36 am

Re: will Silver-Chloride work for shsg?

Post by Martin »

Color photographic materials used to have a sensitivity gap in the orange wavelength range. That‘s where sodium vapor lamps (589nm) proved to be tremendously useful (providing very bright light without affecting the recording material). I guess most holographic AgX materials won‘t be particularly sensitive to that wavelength either. Nowadays you might be able to find some narrow bandwidth LEDs for that purpose.

As Dinesh pointed out already, UV is no option. IR + some night goggles would do the job though.
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