seeing spots before my eyes and hating it

rzeheb · Post by **rzeheb** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:42 pm

O.K., I just shot my first 5" X 7" transmission H1 master on (Fuji film). With one exception, which I'll explain below, it came out great!! Much thanks and sloppy wet kisses to Holomaker (for the film) and Jem & John Sonley (sorry John, I don't know what "handle" you use so I had to resort to your real name) for enlightening me on the use of film without index matching fluid. I am very very happy with the results.

Now the one exception:
I am having a LOT of trouble using the squeege on film. I don't have much trouble with glass, but film is a whole new beast to me. The result of this is that there are numerous unsightly "water spots" on the H1. Now, I am assuming that that won't be a problem in my H2s because it stays in the plane of the film and should not project into the H2 (might degrade the quality slightly, but I hope not noticably). Is that a correct assumption? Also, any recommendations on techniques for squeeging film? I use the blade of a car windshield wiper mounted to a length of PVC pipe.

Thanks, Ron

holomaker · Post by **holomaker** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:22 pm

Two ways i handle it,

one is after squeegee i run a moistened fine cell sponge over the surface and stand on edge on a paper towel

second when illuminating your H1 for exposure for the H2, be sure to "tune" the master's angle a bit and they may not be seen at all if alighned @ perfect angle...

Jeffrey Weil · Post by **Jeffrey Weil** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:05 pm

Drying a silver transmission is a lot different than drying a silver reflection. With transmissions you can just use a little photo-flo and hang it to drip dry, no squeegee needed.

Give it a try and see. Different emulsions will behave differently and I've never used the fuji but it's still a good bet you can just hang it up wet. Use a small alligator clip jumper from Radio shack. It's a wire with a clip on each end. Cut it in half and you have two nice clips with a pig tailed wire to hang it up with.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index ... Id=2062661

Take the insulation off of the clip, you can leave it on the wire itself just remove it from the clip part. Use the clip to just grab the slightest bit of a corner of the film. Use the attached wire to tie it off of something to let the film hang. A bunch come in the box and you'll be doubling that amount by cutting them in half. Cheap.

Don't get the clip too wet or it might run down onto the film after its already dried.

Jeff W

Martin · Post by **Martin** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:04 am

rzeheb wrote: I am having a LOT of trouble using the squeege on film. I don't have much trouble with glass, but film is a whole new beast to me. The result of this is that there are numerous unsightly "water spots" on the H1. Now, I am assuming that that won't be a problem in my H2s because it stays in the plane of the film and should not project into the H2 (might degrade the quality slightly, but I hope not noticably). Is that a correct assumption? Also, any recommendations on techniques for squeeging film? I use the blade of a car windshield wiper mounted to a length of PVC pipe.

That looks OK to me.

The way I do it is:
- Put the wet film on a large clean vertically mounted mirror
- emulsion side towards the glass
- squeegee the film base side
- remove the film from the mirror
- squeegee the mirror to remove the water drops
- dry the windshield wiper with household paper
- put the film on the mirror, base side towards the glass
- squeegee across the film in one vertical movement
- dry the windshield wiper with household paper
- squeegee across the film in one vertical movement
- dry the emulsion with a hairdryer (some emulsions may require cold air!)

That's the technique that we had established for the Agfa films. For other materials with softer emulsions you might consider an alcohol-water bath prior to squeegeeing. Soft emulsions like PFG-03 cannot be squeegeed at all.

Jem · Post by **Jem** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:01 am

Hi Ron

If you're around on Skype tomorrow i'll show you the method John and I use. I too struggled with getting a 'clean' squeegee, but once I adopted John's method I haven't looked back

Cheers

Jem

rzeheb · Post by **rzeheb** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:18 am

Thanks all for the advice and suggestions. I would LOVE to be able to just hang the film and avoid the squeegee alltogether.

Gem, I should be around to Skype tomorrow. Looking forward to it!

Ron

Dinesh · Post by **Dinesh** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:06 am

rzeheb wrote: Now, I am assuming that that won't be a problem in my H2s because it stays in the plane of the film and should not project into the H2 (might degrade the quality slightly, but I hope not noticably). Is that a correct assumption?

Yes and no. When you look at an H2, you're looking at it through a virtual "window" of the H1. Any inconsistencies in the H1 film won't replicate on the H2, but it will form a sort of smudge through which you look at the H2. Some may find this disturbing and some may not notice at all. It's a bit like looking through a glass window that's faintly fogged or greasy. If the spot on the H1 is localised ( a particular smudge on some corner(s) of the H1, for example), then as the viewer sees through this spot, the H2 image will suddenly get blurry. This is fairly noticeable. If the entire H1 is smudged, then no matter where the viewer looks, the H2 image will be slightly smeared. In this case, the viewer might not notice anything. Bad woodgrain is particularly noticeable but faint woodgrain is sometimes not noticed at all.

Jeffrey Weil · Post by **Jeffrey Weil** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:00 pm

Dinesh is correct but I'd like to add something to his comments. It depends a lot on how far apart your H1 and H2 are. Your playback light has a lot to do with it too.

If your two holograms are very close together you'll see that spot, especially with a sharp viewing light. If they are very far you might not ever see it no matter the lighting conditions.

This is one of those things your going to have to develop a feel for. Every lab and setup is a little different. Soon you'll see a mark on a master and just know if its ok to go with it or reshoot.

Jeff W

John Sonley · Post by **John Sonley** » Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:24 am

Hi Jeffery - I always position the leading surface of my object 12 - 12.5 cms from the film when making my H1. This addresses two points:
1. The point you raised in helping blurr-out any inconsistencies in the plane of the H1 film
2. Puts the H2 film about 13 - 14 cms from the H1 film - (assuming you're making an image plane H2 with a centimetre or more of 'real' image), so that the H1 reconstruction beam at about 36 degrees angle of incidence doesn't overlap and interfere the H2 film